Curse

Kampfkeks · Aug 20, 2005, 11:53 AM // 11:53

PVE is flawed, PVP is flawed too. Neither of both is more important than the other. Splitting it up is no option. Living side by side peacefully is neither. For every update that is made for either of those two sides the other side complains that no changes were made for them.
A.Net moved into a real conflict here.
My (not so sarcastic) suggestion on improving the situation:
Create Skilldistricts in PVP Areas, rather than having language districts. Why that? Because when the typical PVE Player has completed the game for the first time and decides to try some PVP... he will get crushed, strung and hangout in the very first seconds with such a nasty asskicking he won't PVP again for quite some time and getting kinda alienated to the wishes and thoughts of PVP Players. The problem i see is having to fight the top notch elite players from the beginning. So let's say:

Beginner District: Everyone from Rank 0-2 can enter here
Mediocre District: Everyone from Rank 0-5 can enter here
Pro District: Everyone from Rank 0-xx can enter here.

Yes it is not thought out and flawed as well but its just a suggesion anyways. Don't force newbs to compete with pros. None of both will have had fun fighting.

Kaylee Ann · Aug 20, 2005, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

PVE is flawed, PVP is flawed too.

Glad to see we have your infinite wisdom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

The problem i see is having to fight the top notch elite players from the beginning. So let's say:

Beginner District: Everyone from Rank 0-2 can enter here
Mediocre District: Everyone from Rank 0-5 can enter here
Pro District: Everyone from Rank 0-xx can enter here.

Yes it is not thought out and flawed as well but its just a suggesion anyways. Don't force newbs to compete with pros. None of both will have had fun fighting.

The problem with your idea, is that you think /rank actually means something...

Corbin · Aug 20, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

dear god Black Lace, have you lost your mind, the game was built in 2 portions for a purpose, so that those who enjoy an RPG of a game may enjoy PvE and not have to be concerned with Pvping, PVE is not meant to train you for PvP, its meant to be enjoyed, not spammed with strip enchantments and a 105er lich.

the real way to fix PVE is to Give an Incentive for Exploration, so there is a purpose to go out and find new things and discover shit, go from mission to mission.

not everyone and their sister enjoys pvp

Corbin · Aug 20, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

The answer is simple, give everything a purpose and people will enjoy it,

pvp has a purpose, you get money and fame and sigils and whatnot
[
but once you beat hells precipice pve loses its purpose which is why we need

an incentive for exploration

maybe there could be more monk bosses and pve could be similar to pvp but you dont need to change the whole thing entirely, you just need to give people a reason to go outside and fight the mobs, maybe there could be secret areas, that are random so they can remain secret, maybe you could find things for your guild and guild hall,

all we need to do is put something out there, not make the lich a spamming 105er.

Maxiemonster · Aug 20, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Indeed, I agree. If finishing the game would give me something, I would maybe try to finish it another time. But I won't anymore, it's pointless.

Kampfkeks · Aug 20, 2005, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylee Ann

Glad to see we have your infinite wisdom.

_________

The problem with your idea, is that you think /rank actually means something...

You're so narrowed on trying to flame someone when you don't even understand what the message is. What i basically did there was saying that both sides are right at the same time. Where is the reason to flame for stating that?
Did i scratch your ultimate "PVP is all that matters" Wisdom?
_________

Rank does mean something. When a person is fighting with his standard team and good enough to pull of some wins he will without doubt rise in his rank. He can't prevent that. Fame will flow in now and then. This is by no means a true measure for personal skill. But it will prevent PVP Starters to get crushed repeatedly without the chance of winning or even learning from it just because it is so damn fast done.
It gives them time to actually grow in PVP Skill as the competion grows. Thus ensuring him a steady source of fun instead of alienating him right from the start.

Kaylee Ann · Aug 20, 2005, 07:15 PM // 19:15

I don't see what is so hard about join/make a guild --> recruit more people, friends, whoever, like minded people, use the forums since that is what they are here for, not your complaining --> help each other out to get skills --> do tombs and GvG, get ran over --> learn from it, refine, rinse and repeat.

Countless guilds do it every day, so I really don't see why you can't. Not a day goes by that I don't see someone winning the halls that I have never heard of. Maybe, if you got rid of your 'everything needs to be given to me attitude' and worked towards winning with a group of like minded people you wouldn't have any of these problems.

Or, you can just lose and quit. In any case, with an attitude like that you would have never amounted to a decent PvPer anyways.

Brett Kuntz · Aug 20, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Get rid of Pre-searing Ascalon. It's worthless, has nothing to do with the rest of the game, and being it's the only source of PvP embedded in PvE content you give false hope to new players.

For the rest of the game it's simple. PvE is supposed to teach players the basics for PvP and prepare them for it. The current game fails wonderfully at this, so I decided to take a sip of Mountain Dew and come up with something Anet never could see.

A.) Every mob in PvE has a monk Boss. Maybe 2 just to make sure idiots never advance.

The reasoning here is simple: The parts that give most PvE players trouble are ones with monks. Most groups load up on damage, bring a monk along, forget about Necros and Mesmers and run through everything. Here's a big hint: give those classes a defined scenario where the fit and they will be accepted into parties more. You also get a 2 for 1, since groups that are horrible will take forever to make it through.

Learning how to disable monks is fundamental. Give the monk bosses energy management like Channeling, Energy Drain, ViM, Bonneti's, or whatever.

B.) I want a ranger like creature that spams nothing but rituals and posions everyone. Make sure he has Oath shot.

This will teach players that in PvP only one thing matters: Fertile Season and Nature's Renewal. Make sure this monster is designed extra carefully to mimic real life Tombs morons: spams natures renewal even if his Monks and Ele mob teammates have enchantments up-what does he care, NR rocks. Spam fertile season even when they are winning the battle, it builds character. Drop Frozen Soil asap no matter who dies. Arcane mimicry Greater Conflag and drop it along with Winter for extra fun.

Enchantment loaded builds go to hell. Necro hexes lose having any point in PvE. Yay. No more mass monk builds loaded with bonds and frontloaded energy management. You eliminate god knows how many builds for PvE but who cares?

C.)A El/Mo smiter with boon+draw conditions+rof. This guy will rock everyone's face. He'll just beat any PuG PvE team senseless, not to mention he has a monk casting spell breaker on him. When that drops to the inevitable NR spam from the ranger he just loses one spell to diversion and keeps on ticking. Rock on. He also has Ward against Foes because he's an asshole. Cheers!

D.)Please include a mesmer with nothing but energy denial,diversion spam and wards. Energy denial rocks. Make sure he has Wards to just screw the Fire Eles over(you know, they are the only ones that matter in PvE) and has all kind of non-hex energy denial. This includes Sigs, Energy drain, maybe Tap, and even Signet of Humilty because he rocks.

E.) For safe measure, a necro that does nothing but cast Tainted Flesh and Putrid Explosion.

No explanation needed for this guy, if you cant see his ownage I feel bad for you.

This group will train every PvE player to get used to PvP. Fighting under these conditions, who can't get better?

Wait, whats that you say? This build will just make PvE lose a lot builds, and turn everything into monotonous gameplay?

*shrug*

While your post is nice, your inexperience with top-tier PvE really shows. You forgot the elite stuff:

-The "runner": This boss keeps away from you while you fight his mob friends, and when the going looks tough he runs laps around the map so you have to waste a bit of time killing him.

-The "gank": This isn't a boss, but infact a mob of monsters. This mob magically appears when you're already fighting other mobs, never at any other time. Make sure each map has enough of these groups so you always have to fight 3 teams at once.

-The "Talker": This mob talks sh-t before, during, and after it's lost to your PvE team. When ignored it then begins to whisper a random teammate some more.

-The "Delay": You cant actually fight this team of monsters untill it kills another team of monsters, which it keeps one of those alive so cement doors stay closed, meaning your PvE team gets to do nothing for a very long time. And of course, the single monster left on the team wont quit the game so the doors open, noooooo no way, he'll keep trying to kill them monks with his sword.

Phades · Aug 21, 2005, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylee Ann

Not a day goes by that I don't see someone winning the halls that I have never heard of. ... Or, you can just lose and quit. In any case, with an attitude like that you would have never amounted to a decent PvPer anyways.

Well gee, if many of the more experienced players and guilds stopped playing and some stopped doing tombs, then it would be easy to see a bunch of "new faces" winning all of a sudden. This would be a direct result of the abscence of the ceiling that existed before, not as a direct result of a change in the meta-game.

Losing does not equate out to quitting. Boredom and frustration are more likely causes and if the game ceases to have variation, then it would very quickly lead to boredom regardless of the outcome.

Hiawatha · Aug 21, 2005, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Bless you Blackace, still as insightful as ever

I would like to add one more item to your list if I may (and I hope this hans't been mentioned in the thread already, as I haven't read it all): make mobs impossible to engage in battle until the player party types "Hey, GL, HF!!" or something similar. Have the mobs say "GG" upon being defeated.

Cheers.

-- P

Hiawatha · Aug 21, 2005, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Another awful double-post, but a tragic thought just occurred to me. I think the vast majority of PvE lovers here would have LOVED GW PvP if they'd gotten to play it properly before the mood there turned sour. But because of the PvE requirement, most of them didn't get this opportunity, and it's no wonder so many of them feel the PvP is just not worth it.

But love is sharing, right? They should have to wait at the end of missions for mobs to form parties and appear. Btw, it's unfair to have all the mobs be named in English. Why can't mobs form international groups? And why don't they dance?

Argon The Seeker · Aug 21, 2005, 03:59 AM // 03:59

pre-searing is one of the great places in PVE and I don't consider PVE Training for PVP as I never plan on being PVP EVER. PVE is as much of the Game as PVP and anyone who disagrees should go and jump in a ditch.

Ender Ward · Aug 21, 2005, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Ha! Absolutely brilliant.

Kaylee Ann · Aug 21, 2005, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Well gee, if many of the more experienced players and guilds stopped playing and some stopped doing tombs, then it would be easy to see a bunch of "new faces" winning all of a sudden. This would be a direct result of the abscence of the ceiling that existed before, not as a direct result of a change in the meta-game.

Losing does not equate out to quitting. Boredom and frustration are more likely causes and if the game ceases to have variation, then it would very quickly lead to boredom regardless of the outcome.

No kidding, thank you for stating the obvious. But, if you don't think that people are going to get better and newer people are going to win more, then you are an idiot.

Kai Nui · Aug 21, 2005, 05:49 AM // 05:49

And lets have archer and cultists henchmen use their good spells. Those idiots use nothing worth while.

"ANet just got "zinged". Oh, it's on now!"

Hold my coffee mug, oh and BTW, what time is it? Oh Burn! oooh! You know Burners are better than zingers.

I'm busy here out in the forest with my chainsaw. Rrrr! Rrrr! *starts up chainsaw* Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Tiiiiiiiimmmm--burrrrrn! Oh burn! w00t now?

Weezer_Blue · Aug 21, 2005, 08:50 AM // 08:50

They need to make each henchmen have a 1 in 10 chance of being called "watch me die" and then dying at the beginning of the match as mobs rush to kill you. (you know who you are... asshole!)

Phades · Aug 21, 2005, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylee Ann

No kidding, thank you for stating the obvious. But, if you don't think that people are going to get better and newer people are going to win more, then you are an idiot.

Win more against who? Other people that are newer to the game than those who have moved on? Sure why not, even among new people they will seperate the from each other, but that doesnt mean that they are better than what was. You have some serious envy issues you need to address because i have yet to see you not flame people who have came before you.

I am curious though, if it was so obvious, then why was it excluded from your overly simplified post?

Sagius Truthbarron · Aug 21, 2005, 09:41 AM // 09:41

I feel that Pre-Searing is one of the most fun parts of the entire PvE experience.

Or maybe being with so many PUGs just ruined the Post-Searing PvE for me.

I say more areas like Pre-Searing (Where you can solo) or perhaps areas that become more difficult but give more rewards for larger groups.

Vermilion Okeanos · Aug 21, 2005, 09:44 AM // 09:44

haha, although I do not agree with most of the things being said... I do admit that Anet had ALOT of contradicting things from the game and their mouth... Give them some time... It is suppose to be a revolutionary CORPG, there was no foot step to follow... obviously it is not going to be easy... and of course, the developer still got a life to live.

Ensign · Aug 21, 2005, 10:39 AM // 10:39

There are new guilds and players new to the PvP scene who are excellent. There's also still a lot of mediocrity in Tombs, guild teams or not. As a sweeping generalization, I'd say that the overall quality of play in Tombs is higher than it was in the first few months of release, but the *quantity* of play has dropped dramatically. While you'd hit almost every map on your way to the Hall in the first month, now you're unlucky if you have to even play half of them. While you'd rarely see one on one matchups in the Hall in the first month and would almost always be treated to a full house, now one on one matchups are the norm, and the five team Hall of Heroes slugfest is all but extinct.

Couple that with trends in buildmaking that put a lot more emphesis on taking the altar than holding it, and winning a battle in the Hall of Heroes is a whole lot easier than it used to be. Of course holding the dais for an hour can be a whole lot easier too, since you're going to run into a lot more dumb 1v1 matchups that are practically byes.

In many ways I think it's unfortunate that the good teams of the past simply aren't around these days. The builds are better now, but actual play is a lot sloppier than it used to be in my experience. Maybe it's because there aren't the tight teams around to really push people anymore, or maybe it's because these builds just play themselves and it's really just a matter of smashing your broken slop against theirs, but I'd love to see what would happen if the teams that had to win with terrible builds got their hands on the new generation of builds. Not to mention there would be some compelling matchups between these new guilds and the old guys at their peak - maybe the coming patch will do enough to pull people back to the game and make those matchups happen.

Peace,
-CxE